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Two Witnesses

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1

Revelation 11:3 KJV
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

2

Zechariah 4:2-3 KJV
And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: [3] And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

3

Here is something to consider about the two witnesses. There is a lot more explanation about this in context, which will come out as we study this further. The 3 1/2 years is highly significant here also. This time frame is consistent throughout the books of Daniel and revelation which verses mention 3 1/2 years, the 1260 days, Time Time and the dividing of times and the 42 months all refer to the same time frame, the 1260 years of papal persecution. The papacy was given world power in 538ad when Emperor Justinian gave the pope the throne of the Caesars in an effort to save Rome from complete annihilation. By around 538 the catholic church was well established and had more power then the civil power of the Caesars. This was the beginning of the church run state of the catholic church during the dark ages. In around 1798 the pope was taken captive and the power of the church was broken, and the papacy suffered the deadly wound of revelation 13:3.  In 1929 we can read in the SF Chronicle the headline that states "healing the wound". Here is an article about this http://www.biblelight.net/wound.htm 1929 was not the complete fulfillment of the wound being healed, but it started the healing process which will be completed when the image spoken of in revelation 13:14 is fully accomplished. This image of/to the beast is when apostate protestantism "harlots" join hands across the gulf with the "mother" "babylon" roman church, revelation 17. This has been shifted into high gear in the past 20 years. ALL mainstream protestant denominations have in fact joined with the catholic church. The leaders have signed unity agreements on different occasions.

Revelation 11:4. "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."
Evident allusion is here made to Zech. 4:11-14, where it is explained that the two olive trees are taken to represent the word of God; and David testifies, "The entrance of thy words giveth light;" and, "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Written testimony is stronger than oral. Jesus declared of the Old Testament Scriptures, "They are they which testify of me." In this dispensation, he says that his works bear witness of him. By what means do they bear witness of him? Ever since those disciples who were personally associated with him while on earth passed off the stage of life, his works have borne witness of him only through the medium of the New Testament, where alone we find them recorded. This gospel of the kingdom, it was once declared, shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations, etc.
These declarations and considerations are sufficient to sustain the conclusion that the Old and New Testaments, one given in one dispensation, and the other in the other, are Christ's two witnesses.
The two witnesses prophesied in sackcloth and ashes during the 1260 years of papal persecution. After 1929 they were given life and the bible was freely spread around the world. Up to that time, the 19th century saw great spiritual awakening which sparked interest like never before, but during that time not only was Christianity growing, but so was the new age movement. Whenever God moves to do great things satan is right there to counterfeit, and deceive. During the dark ages bibles were outlawed for the longest time. Only the learned were allowed to own bibles in latin only. For a time if someone got caught with a bible in the "common" language they were killed. The dark ages were spiritually dark indeed and the bible was very obscured, as the devil himself tried to eradicate it completely. God protected it throughout all times of deep darkness and spiritual prosperity.

I share this because there is not much time left. Many want to place most of the book of revelation into the future. I use to do that until I started to realize that all the plagues, the seals, the trumpets, the seven last plagues cannot all happen within the short time we have left before Jesus comes. We are definitely living in the time of the seventh trumpet and the seventh seal. As Europe was being formed there were many battles and empires which came and fell. To deny that this time frame was mentioned in the bible, and to try to stuff all these prophecies into the short time we have left would be to deny much of the history written in the bible. Europe started out as ten kingdoms represented by the last beat in Daniel 7:7 and onward through the description of this beast that had 7 heads and ten horns, then a little horn came up and plucked up three of the ten. The little horn is the papacy which completely wiped out the vandals ostrogoths and the heruli nations to extinction, or as the prophecy says plucked them up by the roots. All the ruckus during those times was actually the trumpets, and seals being fulfilled. Attila and the huns was considered wormwood. I read that on a web page a while ago but Google is editing and removing a lot of historic information, there is still some but it takes some digging. Before Atilla were Alaric and Genseric, the first and second trumpet, Atilla being the third. John also saw this beast looking back in history. If you notice how Daniel saw in the future the lion the bear and the leopard, John saw one beast which comprised the leopard the bear and the lion in opposite order looking back in the past. This all refers to the roman church. The first three beasts which Daniel saw were the kingdoms of Babylon Media-Persia, and Greece. We are told what the term beast represents throughout prophecy in Daniel:7:17: "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." When we interpret prophecy there is one rule that really makes interpretation simple. We know that no prophecy is of any private interpretation but if we define terms like beast, which according to Daniel is a king, or kingdom. This holds true throughout all prophetic interpretation. ONLY for prophetic interpretation, we cannot use this same rule when interpreting Moses writings unless we find somewhere that he prophesied. There are many places that this rule is very obvious and others are not so obvious. We are told in revelation 12:9 who the dragon is, it is that old serpent called the devil and satan. This is how to interpret prophecy. There are many others, which I will list the ones I found biblical definitions for soon, like woman, waters, candlestick, etc.

The two witnesses are very hard to define from only the bible, but when we take history and the bible we can understand it much better.

4

There's a lot there to digest, it's going take a bit to go through all of it but I agree all those time periods are the same time period.

That being said, how does the verse below tie into the papacy coming into power in 538 AD. In my opinion Jerusalem being trodden under foot began in AD 70.

Revelation: 11. 2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. - Bible Offline

Last edited by kjv1611 (Nov 24 2016 07:08 pm)

5

Consider this about the court and the gentiles. The gentiles had been trodden under foot for the 1260 years of the papal persecution, but at the end of that time period the gentiles, you and I, of whom the gospel went to after the stoning of Stephen, were given the courtyard. God gave the temple to the jews only, but when the vail tore from top to bottom God's presence was no longer there, but the temple was, at least until 70 AD. Now there is no physical temple, but figuratively the courtyard has been given to the gentiles because the Jews lost there favor of God.

The "temple" is considered the church, or God's people. 1Corinthians:3:16&17: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." It takes much study and prayer to discern the spiritual from the physical, especially when it comes to prophecy. Remember God is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit, Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. From what I have found about revelation is that it is almost totally spiritual. There is not much physical interpretation in that book. As God's people are the temple, and the physical temple only allowed for the jews to enter we are now in a spiritual aspect of the temple. We cannot interpret this context with the physical temple, which was destroyed in AD70, as the reference point. The courtyard is the next best thing for God to give to the gentiles, so I would place the courtyard as the reference point of this context.

6

masmpg wrote:

Consider this about the court and the gentiles. The gentiles had been trodden under foot for the 1260 years of the papal persecution, but at the end of that time period the gentiles, you and I, of whom the gospel went to after the stoning of Stephen, were given the courtyard. God gave the temple to the jews only, but when the vail tore from top to bottom God's presence was no longer there, but the temple was, at least until 70 AD. Now there is no physical temple, but figuratively the courtyard has been given to the gentiles because the Jews lost there favor of God.


I"m not following you on the papal persecution for 1260 years. The Catholic church has always been against Christ and they have always persecuted and tried to destroy the true church. Also the city has been trodden under foot for 1760 years not 1260 years. The two time frames don't match so I'm having a hard time understanding what papal persecution has to do with 1260 years.. I have to get a grasp on this before I can continue... this is all new to me, I"m not familiar with it at all.

7

kjv1611 wrote:

I"m not following you on the papal persecution for 1260 years. The Catholic church has always been against Christ and they have always persecuted and tried to destroy the true church. Also the city has been trodden under foot for 1760 years not 1260 years. The two time frames don't match so I'm having a hard time understanding what papal persecution has to do with 1260 years.. I have to get a grasp on this before I can continue... this is all new to me, I"m not familiar with it at all.


I don't understand where you get the 1760. There are some key dates in Daniel the 1260, the 2300, 1290, and 1335 day prophesies. I have never read about a 1760.
Da:7:25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Re:11:9: And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Re:11:11: And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Re:11:2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Re:13:5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Here are the verses referring to the 1260 day/years. All of them are regarding the persecution period of the people of God or the two witnesses, the time the bible was outlawed. These time frames, 3.5days, time, times and a half time, 42 months all ad up to 1260 days/years. In 538 AD the papacy stepped up on the throne of the Caesars. This date has been very tampered with since this truth was revealed in the 19th century. If we ad 1260 years to this date we come to 1798. In 1798 something very significant happened. The pope was taken captive by one of Napoleon's generals. This was the deadly wound spoken of by John in
Re:13:3: And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Re:13:12: And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
In 1929 the wound started to heal when mousalini gave rome back to the vatican. You can read the headline "healing the wound" in the SF chronicle online, the link is in the first post to the SF Chronicle article. All this has been mixed up to try to erase it all by changing dates and removing some stories and articles from search engines. It all use to be very easy to prove on the internet but google has been censoring their search engine and making it harder to prove a lot about true history especially that which refers to the vatican. Many historians have much to say about this, which, if you want I can quote some of them.

I will ad more threads when the Lord gives me freedom to do so. Sometimes I can write much easier than other times. I don't like to write when I have to force something. When the Holy Spirit leads we definitely know it. I try to keep in prayer when I write on here.


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